[CRYOLIST] Something for CNN's Ridiculist: New atlas shows extent of climate change - SOME STATISTICS ON THE USE OF THE CRYOLIST ON THE SUBJECT
francisco.navarro at upm.es
Thu Sep 22 23:55:26 PDT 2011
From 16 Sept to 23 Sept 8 UTC, approx. 60 messages on the subject, of
which 21 are from Jeffrey Kargel.
No matter who is/are next, because their number of messages are 5, 3, ...
Of course Jeff was the initiator of the discussion, and thus it is
normal that he holds the record, but the point is that EVEN IF I AGREE
THAT THIS SUBJECT SHOULD BE DISCUSSED IN THE CRYOLIST, we should try to
get a reasonable/manageable number of messages and do not make of this a
chat. Perhaps it is as simple as not trying to answer anyone's comments
or just wait for a day before writing the next one on the subject (from
the same sender, I mean).
Thanks, Jeff, for initiating this and keeping it alive (in spite of my
complaint above), and to everyone for their contributions.
El 16/09/2011 0:41, Jeffrey Kargel escribió:
> Dear Cryolisters, especially media people 'listening' in:
> No doubt this 'news' story and Atlas are going to be repeated far any
> wide. THIS IS NOT WHAT IS HAPPENING.
> THIS IS NOT SCIENCE. THIS IS NOT WHAT SCIENTISTS ARE SAYING. Greenland
> specialists, people like Michele Cittero,
> Peter Ahlstrom, Leigh Stearns, Gordon Hamilton, Waleed Abdalati and
> many more have documented what actually
> IS happening in Greenland, and it involves some incredibly rapid
> changes, mainly increasing melting, thinning, and
> retreat; and slight thickening in some sectors, but overall Greenland
> is a story of massive, rapid retreat.
> Special dynamics are at play, and probably climate warming as well.
> However, this Guardian story is ridiculously
> off base, way exaggerated relative to the reality of rapid change in
> Greenland. I don't know how exactly the
> Times Atlas produced their results, but they are NOT scientific
> results. Therefore, media be warned: play on this story
> at your own serious risk of losing credibility. I am certain that the
> scientists mentioned above, and many others,
> will respond with actual data, throughly peer-reviewed publications,
> and lots of data to show what is happening.
> It isa dramatic story, many dramatic stories. But don't believe this
> Guardian article.
> Sorry, Guardian. I used to just grin and bear it when things like this
> happen. But the IPCC fiasco and the whole'
> sad chain leading up to it, where media played on media and NGO's
> played on each other, without actual science
> in the loop, leads me to believe that there is no such thing as being
> too critical with the media. This Greenland
> story is not science; did I say that already? OK, now somebody can
> figure out where the new brown or the loss
> of old white came from. Not from proper treatment of data, that's for
> Thanks to Jim Torson and Graham Cogley for bringing this new 'news' to
> my attention. It is a crisis of misinformation
> only if the media or politicians fail to consult with scientists.
> --Jeff Kargel
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 11:08:15 -0700
> Subject: New atlas shows extent of climate change
> New atlas shows extent of climate change
> The world's newest island makes it on to the map as the Arctic
> Uunartoq Qeqertaq, or Warming Island, is officially recognised
> * John Vidal <http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/johnvidal>,
> environment editor
> * guardian.co.uk <http://www.guardian.co.uk/>, Thursday 15 September
> 2011 06.46 EDT
> Greenland ice cover in Times Comprehensive Atlas of the World
> In Times Comprehensive Atlas of the World, Greenland has lost around
> 15% of its ice cover between 10th edition (1999) (left) and 13th
> edition (2011) (right). Photograph: Times Comprehensive Atlas of the World
> If you have never heard of Uunartoq Qeqertaq
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uunartoq_Qeqertaq>, it's possibly
> because it's one of the world's newest islands, appearing in 2006 off
> the east coast of Greenland
> <http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/greenland>, 340 miles north of the
> Arctic <http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/arctic> circle when the ice
> retreated because of global warming. This Thursday the new land --
> translated from Inuit as Warming Island -- was deemed permanent enough
> by map-makers to be included in a new edition
> of the most comprehensive atlas in the world.
> Uunartoq Qeqertaq joins Southern Sudan and nearly 7,000 other
> countries and places added or changed since the last edition of the
> Times Comprehensive Atlas of the World
> <http://www.timesatlas.com/Pages/default.aspx>, reflecting political
> change in Africa, administrative changes in China, burgeoning cities
> in developing countries, climate change
> <http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/climate-change>, and large
> infrastructure projects which have changed the flow of rivers
> <http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/rivers>, lakes and coastlines.
> The world's biggest physical changes in the past few years are mostly
> seen nearest the poles where climate change has been most extreme.
> Greenland appears considerably browner round the edges, having lost
> around 15%, or 300,000 sq km, of its permanent ice cover. Antarctica
> is smaller following the break-up of the Larsen B
> and Wilkins ice shelves
> But the Aral Sea in central Asia, which had previously shrunk to just
> 25% of its size only 80 years ago, is now larger than it was only five
> years ago, thanks to Kazakhstan redirecting water
> <http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/water> into it. Elsewhere in
> Asia, islands are appearing off the mouths of the Ganges and the
> Yangtze rivers as the amount of silt brought down from the Himalayas
> and inland China changes.
> Sections of the Rio Grande, Yellow, Colorado and Tigris rivers are now
> drying out each summer. In Mongolia, the Ongyin Gol has been
> redirected to allow gold mining, while the Colorado river these days
> does not reach the sea most years. "We are increasingly concerned that
> in the near future important geographical features will disappear for
> ever. Greenland could reach a tipping point in about 30 years," said
> Jethro Lennox, editor of the atlas.
> New Times atlas reveals changes to Earth
> The Greenland ice sheet is shrinking, the latest edition of the
> Times Comprehensive Atlas Of The World has revealed.
> Related Tags:
> Ireland <http://www.metro.co.uk/explore/locations/countries/ireland>
> Times Atlas, Aral sea This image shows the Aral sea is vanishing
> (Picture: Atlas/PA)
> By comparing Greenland in the 1999 edition with the same country in
> its 2011 version, the full impact of the changes to our world becomes
> Using satellite images, map makers have turned an area of Greenland
> the size of Britain and Ireland 'green'. That's because its
> once-permanent ice cover is retreating inland.
> They have also included a new island off the coast of Greenland, named
> Warming Island (Uunartoq Qeqertoq), which has appeared as a separate
> piece of land several miles long as the ice melts.
> Times Atals, Greenland Laid bare: Greenland in 1999, left, contrasts
> with the same country today, right (Picture: Atlas/PA)
> The Aral Sea, once the fourth largest lake in the world, has shrunk by
> 75 per cent since 1967. Soviet irrigation projects diverted its waters
> to cotton fields in Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan, effectively emptying it.
> 'With each new map we can see and plot environmental changes as they
> happen,' said atlas editor Jethro Lennox. 'We are increasingly
> concerned that important geographical features will disappear for ever.'
> It also shows that more than 50 per cent of the world's population now
> live in cities.
> You're subscribed to the CRYOLIST mailing list
> To change your subscription options, visit http://cryolist.org/
> To send a message to the list, email cryolist at cryolist.org
Prof. Francisco Navarro., desp. A-302-4
Departamento de Matemática Aplicada
ETSI de Telecomunicación, Universidad Politécnica de Madrid
Av. Complutense, 30 (Ciudad Universitaria)
28040 Madrid, Spain
Tel. ++34 914533565, Fax ++34 913367289
e-mail francisco.navarro at upm.es
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
More information about the CRYOLIST